Too much thinking?

[thatrcooper]

You know, I don't know why I write so much or why I feel the need to show every little thing a character is feeling, but it really makes stories go long. Usually much, much longer than I'd intended.

I mean, I plot out an arc about growth and realization (and love and sex) and I swear, I never think it's going to end up as complicated and drawn out as it always does. And it all feels essential and right (if in need of trimming and cutting out my insane love of commas). Then, 350 pages later, I realize that no way would anyone sit through 400 pages of fluffy romance (or 475 pages of non fluffy romance, in the case of Ideas of Sin) and I have to make cuts.

Which leaves me wondering if I could end something, say the Charlie and Will manuscript, which has not even been titled for all that it's now epic length, earlier than I'd intended and if it would still seem complete to people.  If maybe I'm the only one who needs the After.

Because seriously, my endings are um...a bit anticlimactic, really. Aren't they? 475 pages of struggle and then...something small. They walk away. He says a name. They open a door, etc...

Or it's just a day for self-doubt.

Thinky thinky thinky.

Comments

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

I just read the short Charlie/Will story and loved it. I'm thrilled that the rest of their story might be coming soon. Are you planning to get it published?

And sometimes the throwaway, subtle endings pack quite a punch.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I've been writing them in this (so long) thing for about a year now. I wrote that short story for Christmas last year and sort of thought of it as an epilogue.

Now I'm considering the last scenes that have to get done to get where I'd originally planned on it ending, and I am seriously wondering if I lost my mind somewhere along the way. lol And I doubt any publisher would take it, as long as it is.

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

If it helps, Torquere goes up to about 120,000 words I think, without going over there to check. Generally, an e-novel is between 60-100,000, just as a rough guideline.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

heh. Thanks!

But oh my my do I go over that word limit. Whoa.

[dlasta.livejournal.com]

I *hate* huge endings. I need something more epilogue-y to feel like the story is finished properly.

I love your thinky brain.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

I could end the story after the initial spanking/daddy scene and just go back and fill in stuff. And then everything after that would just be silly fun cuddles and sex and okay, a fight and a breakup and a dramatic reunion, but clearly, that's non essential, right?

I think my brain is broken.

I got scolded for the IOS ending you know. You haven't read that, but let me tell you, I had people writing me and being all "That's it??" super indignant.

[dlasta.livejournal.com]

Whaaaaat? Um, rude, and what the hell anyways, what were they after? Explosions?

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

Well for a story that begins with a battle on board on a ship it ends with a little whimper. (And cuddles). But yeah, rude. I think they meant it in a we want moar! way. But...roo.

[dlasta.livejournal.com]

Fine line, dammit. Think before posting, come on.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

You have got to be kidding me? The ending of IOS was perfect. What fuck book were they reading? It answered all the questions that the characters had of each other throughout the whole frigging book. It dealt with the Rene's daddy issues, the emotional knife in his gut throughout the whole book. James comes to terms with the concepts of sin and salvation. And Rene comes to terms with his love for James and actually believes that James loves him. ALL IN ONE CHAPTER. It was the PERFECT ENDING.

PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS!

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

Aw. Aw.

Yeah I don't know. I am just amazed they made it all the way through (but then, I guess they made it all the way through, and then wanted more. Gluttons.)

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

I don't know how you get all these pages writing about two people. My ADD kicks in after a while and I have to switch characters heh. But I think the best endings are sort of beginnings. And if you can think of your story in terms of a plot, you can see where the plot ends and whether it's been settled. Remember pir8fancier's post about stories answering questions. If you've answered the question(s) then that's the end. Also, because I fail hard at those big talky/thinky things (which is the basis of what you're doing) it's helped me to think of them in terms of plot - beginning middle end, or set up climax and falling action. I don't remember the proper terms, but I try to think of stories (or chapters) as having momentum - of building up to climactic point. For me, that makes it easier to see an ending.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

This was helpful, in a weird way. I know you don't do all the weird stuff that I do (you world builder you...which is way harder btw), but answering questions, that should always be the same.

:)

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

I was going to come back and comment to say that you need to resolve Charlie's Getting Over Himself Will Could Never Want Icky Old Me issue, but I see pir8fancier beat me to it.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Okay, it seems to me (having read the majority of it) that the ending should solve two issues. (1) Charlie and his self-esteem issue. (2) The one fault that I see in this story (and it's so intriguing that I didn't realize this until now) is that Will needs an issue. That only Charlie can solve for him. Perhaps expand on the "daddy" thing. Keep the kink but put the kink in context so that it's both pervy and healing? The ending is the recognition on some level that these characters mesh and can move forward in all their imperfect selves. Once you reach that point, then there's nothing left to say. It seems to be that throughout the entire novel (at this point) that Charlie is constantly fighting the relationship on some level. Whether his self-esteem is so in the toilet or he has issues with his gay, I don't know, but it needs to be dealt with. Will? Not sure. Perhaps his escape into movies? Something can be pleasure and a problem. Maybe he and Charlie need to have a knockdown drag out fight how all of Will's refernces are to something celluoid. That he's rarely on this earth. None of these things needs to be RESOLVED you understand, but they need to be out there, and we, as the reader, need to understand on some level why they work together. What do they offer each other so that the puzzle piece fits? That Charlie has faith that Will lusts and loves him, and Will has faith that Charlie ???????????

That's what you're working toward.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

Between you and Kittie, you've actually been really helpful. Because I still have my ending (usually vague but stronger lately) in mind, but it's the length that always throws me. I don't know why I go on so long, but yeah.

Will's problems. Well he has the movie thing, and then that Charlie is sort of right for doubting him, Will's never had to stick around before. Wanted to, maybe, but never had to make himself stay and deal with the unpleasant side of things.

She just reminded me of what you said about answering questions. That's comforting. I should trust my brain in the answering the questions department...

Just maybe not the shut the hell up already department. :)

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

That Charlie can be his Spank Daddy without thinking less of him? That he can be kinky without being degraded/used? Hmm.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

YES! I like this. But, um, not writing it. But I would definitely buy it in a heartbeat.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

Hmm I come back and find there's a spanking discussion that I totally missed. No fair. haha

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Kittie and I are evol. You know that.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

I see what you mean. I was kind of going to go there, but now I guess I HAVE TO.

More spanking prons for me...

[sinjah.livejournal.com]

Um, everyone's already said pretty much everything I wanted to say, so. I'm just gonna repeat that I do love your endings as well, and I don't find them anticlimatic. All you really need in an ending, as pir8fancier said, is catharsis, your characters resolving the issues you have put out there. It doesn't have to happen with a bang.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

I think I was just angsting over the fact that, yet again, I have gone on forever and day and though the end is in sight, it still irks me.

Irks. I am irked I tell you.

[dreamsparkle3.livejournal.com]

Hope you don't mind me adding my two pence but the only thing you can do wrong is fit your ending into what you think will be accepted. It's your story and I think many people here will agree, you could probably write Will as an alien sent down to Earth to save the world and we would still fall in love with the way you write it.
I've only read your fanfiction but I love your endings there.

[r-cooper.livejournal.com]

Will might just be an alien sent down to Earth. We'll never know. And I don't think Charlie would even care. :)

I am approaching (well, it's in sight anyway) the end. And once I end it and run through (yet another) quick edit, I might post some bits, because yay! feedback.

You are so nice to me. :):):)